So the apartmentmate and I just had 1.5+ hour conversation about Dean/Castiel, Dean's sex life, and a bunch of other related Dean/Castiel, Dean, and Castiel, related stuffs.
See, the apartmentmate doesn't ship Dean/Castiel. She sees it as more of a platonic relationship that's really intense/deep. And I totally respect that (and, in a sense, I agree in the sense that I can see their relationship as platonic, but ultimately I think it's something more, but either way I think it's really intense). So, I like discussing why I see them as a pairing, and she likes dissecting the episodes and seeing if Dean/Castiel is canon, and why it may or may not possibly be canon. (Basically, she likes discussing why I see them as canon, I like hearing her reasons for seeing them as not canon, and we discuss the possibility that their relationship acutally
is canon, from both our perspectives.)
Her consensus? That enough evidence has been unleashed in season 5 to help prepare viewers (who might not have seen Dean/Castiel before) for a potential development in their relationship (woohoo!)
Her points:
1)
Dr. Sexy. 'nough said? I'll elaborate anyway :oP From her standpoint (non-slash goggles), Dean was totally crushin' on Dr. Sexy (my words, not hers). She caught on right away that Dean was more than simply impressed with Dr. Sexy. Her observation: "Dean's acting like someone would with a crush... happy the crush has taken notice of him, but flustered and nervous as well." And as has probs been commented on before, and as I'll say now, Dean says, "I swore that what made Dr. Sexy sexy was the fact he wore cowboy boots." Why would he say this, point out that this is what makes Dr. Sexy sexy, if he hadn't contemplated Dr. Sexy's sexiness before?? So yes, while slashers would pick this up right away, to have my apartmentmate who doesn't pair Dean/Castiel together, and who really isn't a slash fan, say this is pretty significant.
2)
The Real Ghostbusters - Damien and Brooks (hopefully I got their names right). The apartmentmate pointed out that Dean's reaction to their admitting that they were partners was a bit of an overreaction, and why would he act the way he did (kind of uncomfortable-like) if he wasn't trying to hide/cover something up? She said, "It seems like he's overcompensating, trying to hide his own bi or gay tendencies." And I was like, "Dude... you've never seen Dean as anything but straight before." And she said, "Yeah, but why would the writers put both of these scenes (referring to Dr. Sexy and this one) in the show if it wasn't going anywhere? You can't
do that from a writer's standpoint. If you put something in there, then it
has to mean something." Then, "It seems to me like they're trying to set up the audience for something down the road that may develop." (She admitted later that she wouldn't be surprised if what they were setting the audience up for was Dean/Castiel, in some way, shape, or form.)
3)
5.04 - The End. Okay, this episode was a bit of an interesting conversation. We agreed that Future!Castiel's reactions to Past!Dean could be taken either
pastromantically or platonically, but then we got into the general dynamics of F!Cas's interactions with both Past! and Future!Dean.
A)
"I thought you had stopped trying to label me" - (sorry if that's not the exact quote... couldn't find it :o/) The apartmentmate (the non-slasher) said, "Why would Dean have been labelling him? I mean, there's Angel or Human... " pause, "addict, not addict, or a hippy, I don't know! But why would Dean be labeling him in the first place?" I mean... yeah, I can see from a platonic viewpoint that Dean might be trying to label a friend, a fallen angel, but the way F!Castiel said it? It seems like it's been going on for a long, long time, and it seems as though Dean's gone through
many labels for him. Yes, it could come from his drug and alcohol use, his hippy ways and tendencies towards orgies. But really? Why would it mean so much, that Castiel would say it like he does, annoyed and tired and just expecting it, if it wasn't something big, something frequent in their relationship? And, maybe more importantly, why would Dean feel the need to label Castiel? (Is it because their relationship was just that close? I say, yeah, from a more-than-platonic viewpoint, and the apartmentmate said that that crossed her mind even though she really doesn't see them together in such a way.) There would be no real reason for Dean to be labeling Castiel if Castiel's actions didn't bother Dean, and with the amount of labeling that's implied, Dean would have to be pretty invested in Castiel and his actions to actually try to label him. What was between them that made Dean so invested in Castiel to try to label him??
B)
Future!Dean and Future!Castiel's entire attitude towards each other and the dynamic between them. We both brought it up at the same time, but we agreed that there's no reason for F!Dean and F!Castiel to be so on each other's cases like they were unless something really major went down between them. There had to be something there to create a certain animosity that was present between them in the episode. I mean, trying to look at it from a platonic viewpoint, the argument might be that F!Dean doesn't like/approve of F!Castiel's addictions, behaviors, etc., and may even blame him a bit for how things turned out (he's fallen, can't use his powers, and Cas's powers might have helped save Sam... tbh, something I thought of is that when F!Dean says, "We had other people to worry about" rather than looking for Sam, maybe it was Castiel he had to look after, and maybe if that's true, that might be a reason for a certain animosity towards Castiel... even though not on that level that was present in the ep. I don't think...). And yeah, Dean's reverting back to Hell!Dean and torturing would obviously be a sticking point for F!Castiel, but not enough to push him over the edge towards animosity or drug use (which is a
huge fall from Angel), I think. Unless there was something in their relationship that made this extremely painful or (more importantly) made this something to be argued over that would lead to a falling out and animosity. It all goes back to this: there had to be something between them, something that was pretty big, to make the animosity between them so huge, that both parties remark upon and antagonize each other over (despite the fact that Castiel still follows Dean, and Dean obviously still stays with Castiel). And this point was something the apartmentmate brought up on her own, really, and she does
not ship these two together. She noticed a strange dynamic between them, something that calls for something possibly/probably romantic/non-platonic between them.
To summarize:
1) Recently, there's strong canon evidence that Dean may be bi. (Dr. Sexy, The Real Ghostbusters)
2) There are hints that there was canonically something between F!Dean and F!Castiel that made their relationship in The End really intense, and it's completely possible that what was between them may have been more than just friends (the ultimate question being: What relationship would be strong enough between them for the animosity between them to be so strong in The End?)
The whole point of this? The apartmentmate (who is not a slash fan, does not ship Dean/Castiel, and who is pretty adamant in her conviction that Dean and Castiel's relationship is not romantic at this moment in time) admitted that she thinks the writers might possibly be setting something up for Dean/Castiel, and saw evidence for it in canon. She said she wouldn't be surprised if the writers did set up the audience for a development in Dean's (and Castiel's) relationship, and she could totally see their relationship progressing to that level, based upon what has shown up in Season 5.
I was a bit shocked that she said all this, and when said she could see Dean as canically bi. I mean, she's always been adamant (before season 5 started) that Dean loved sex, loved women, and him and Cas were just bff's. Now, she
volunteered evidence that points to their relationship developing past that of just friends, developing romantically. Yeah, I was doing a dance of joy inside, bc if my apartmentmate is anything, she's stubborn about her view on characters. We're both writers and study literature (that's what we'r'e both in grad school for), and so she pretty much analyzes things with canon in mind, as well keeps in mind what the writers might be doing with future developments in the show's plot based on canon evidence and canon character/plot development (she reads no fanfic whatsoever). She's also very adamant about the relationship between Dean and Castiel being platonic.
Now? After season 5? She sees that it could go places, that a romantic relationship between them isn't just a far reach and slashers just pairing them together.
It's weird, bc from my point of view (Dean/Castiel) and her point of view (Dean and Castiel), we both agree that their relationship is intense, and that Castiel most likely will not be able to just disappear from the Winchester's (Dean's) life once all the Apocalypse deal is over and done with. We agreed that it would be ooc if Castiel just up and left and went back home to Heaven and never saw Dean (the Winchester brothers as a whole, I guess) again. So it's interesting that no matter how you look at it, platonically or romantically, Dean and Castiel are basically inseparable.
Okay, I have probably rambled on quite long enough. We discussed other things as well (Dean's sex life was rather fun to talk about lol), but I just felt like typing this all out and pondering it over a lil more. I'm still blown away by the fact that she (a non-slasher) is setting herself up for a romantic relationship to develop between them. I just really, really hope that the writers, Kripke, and the CW don't totally bash this hope/theory/whatever in. I mean... I think the writer's have been shying away from Dean/Castiel a whole helluva lot lately, and I don't like it. The interaction between them in the past few episodes has been a bit off, I think, and I just don't want the writers to mess up what was developing naturally between them just because they want to move the show/plot in a different direction or are afraid of what the story will develop into.
Anyway, I'm done now. Sorry for the super long post. I... I should get back to paper writing and story revamping... :o( This is so much more fun, though... *sigh*
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